Author Topic: 2 questions about corners  (Read 2266 times)

Offline Soul

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2 questions about corners
« on: December 01, 2009, 03:05:19 PM »
Well, I've played two seasons with my IFK Göteborg now, and I have made two observations regarding corners that I'd like to discuss with you:

1) I get an awful lot of them. (And in many games I give away a lot of them too.)
2) I never, ever, score from them.

Has anyone else experienced #1, and has anyone got any good tips on how to set up instructions for corners?

Offline grimness

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Re: 2 questions about corners
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2009, 03:22:39 PM »
Corner to the far post and player with Attack far post instruction can work sometimes.

Offline betterthanburley

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Re: 2 questions about corners
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2009, 04:26:01 PM »
1) Yes.  I think more corners are created in the game than are strictly realistic.  It is similar to (and in some ways a direct consequence of) shots on goals.  More corners gives you better feedback on the success/failure of your overall tactic as well as helping you set up your corner tactics more effectively.  It also reduces the amount of luck in the game. 

2) I always set my corners to mixed and the player settings to default.  With a good corner taker and some decent tall players I convert at a rate that seems realistic to me and the delivery of the kicks and the default roles seem to approximate what a real side would do.

Admittedly, I have not extensively tested FM 2010 corner tactics (and have no desire to do so), but in past versions there were some serious flaws in the AI.  You could score at completely unrealistic rates off corners with the right settings. 

Offline cagiva

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Re: 2 questions about corners
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2009, 05:34:53 PM »
I don't see any issues about corners in FM10.

Take a minute and consider some tactical aspects which leads to many or not so many corners,and throw-ins.
For example if you are playing against teams which are focusing their gameplay through the flanks and doing that are crossing the ball often your defenders ( mainly the fullbacks ) will deflect the crossing in throw-ins and corners often.
And vice versa - if the opposition mainly build-up their play through the middle the corners and the throw-ins will be not so many.

The same applies to your team and your tactical approach.


Offline Dr Naysay

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Re: 2 questions about corners
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2009, 11:03:52 PM »
I could do with advice on corners have tried so many ways of defending them but with no success.

Offline Soul

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Re: 2 questions about corners
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2009, 12:54:23 PM »
@Cagiva: yes, you're right in the sense that I play a game where my wingers and wing backs cross a lot, so naturally there will be a lot of crosses being deflected out to corners, but the thing that bugs me is all of the times (and we're talking a handful per game, usually) when a defender have the whole own half to themselves but decides to fire a cannon towards the own keeper, who in turn has no choice but to let it out to a corner. It happens both my team and the opposition several times EVERY game. Not even in the swedish premier division players are THAT poor at passing... ;) And composure shouldn't be an issue since they're not even under presure and have several decent passing options. I realize that it's probably the ME's way of saying "he didn't know what to do" or "he was under presure and couldn't hit it properly", but seriously, how many times do you see that in real life?

Offline cagiva

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Re: 2 questions about corners
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2009, 03:30:24 PM »
Yeah,you are about that.
This is a issue,that I think in future patches,or in future series of FM will be solved.

Offline betterthanburley

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Re: 2 questions about corners
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2009, 08:31:10 PM »
Yeah, there are two "unrealistic" situations that create corners too frequently.  I don't know about a handful in a game, but at least every other game.

One is the horrible 25 yard pass back to the keeper that is nowhere near him, and there was no one near the defender with the ball.

The other is when the defender is technically covered or semi-covered, but opts to suddenly turn and fire the ball over his own line to concede a corner when it is actually harder for them to do that than to simply blast the ball over the sideline "into row Z."

Offline IRLManagement

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Re: 2 questions about corners
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2009, 02:43:57 AM »
I've had a defender fire a  throw-in right back to his own keeper and it goes out for a corner. Can someone tell me has that ever happened at top level games? I can't recall seeing it in all my time watching football.

Offline Millie

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Re: 2 questions about corners
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2009, 01:15:50 PM »
I've had a defender fire a  throw-in right back to his own keeper and it goes out for a corner. Can someone tell me has that ever happened at top level games? I can't recall seeing it in all my time watching football.

You're right, it's a bug.

Offline chrisormie

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Re: 2 questions about corners
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2009, 08:04:21 PM »
I tend to keep my defence back for corners, stick my strikers on the near post and keeper, then set my midfield to 'go forward'. Depending on my moods I will pick a corner tactic for a run of games and when I think it stops working well I change it. Normally 'Near Post' does ok, 'Far Post' gets cleared too often, and '6-yard box' gets caught by the keeper. The best I have seen it is to set it to 'penalty area' which results in a goal every 2-3 games on average.
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Offline cagiva

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Re: 2 questions about corners
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2009, 08:26:01 PM »
It's worthing to apply short-passing corner kick - ie the corner taker to pass short to somebody who is near him,and then to distribute the ball around the penalty area,or just to hold the ball for few seconds.
When my team doesn't possess players with heading skills this is logical and good option.
I even called it "spanish corner",just because the spanish player are around 1.70m.  :M

Offline Neenerpants

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Re: 2 questions about corners
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2009, 11:59:46 PM »
Corners are unbelievably poor in FM 2010, in my experience so far. In well over 200 corners, I've literally never had one find one of my players. Absolutely every single one is just cleared by an opposition defender, without fail. Set to Mixed, Penalty Area, you name it, they all fail abysmally and result in my crosses completion percentage being shockingly low. I hope they fix it, because it's making my game nigh unplayable, in all honesty  :(

Offline betterthanburley

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Re: 2 questions about corners
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2009, 03:54:00 AM »
I don't know if I would say they are poor.  They match engine or whatever is okay, it's the interface that is bad.

You can score off corners, but it is too much work to set them up for maximum advantage.  There should be some way of presetting 4-5 different corner routines, and then choosing which one you want at any given time with a "shout."  I mean it's not like real life teams don't do that to some extent.

Offline etcetera

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Re: 2 questions about corners
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2009, 08:37:34 AM »
Corners were pissing me off quite a bit as well. I tried some corner tricks posted on other forums which was mostly 6 yard box and best headers challenge keeper. That failed miserably as my players get blocked by opposing defenders giving the keeper free catch practice.

I then set everything back to default and it has worked a bit better. Keeper plucks out about... 30% of then (near post and 6 yard box ones). I've had the most luck when my corner floats to far post, i make a few connections but don't usually score. Much much less than the successes I had in 09

Offline cagiva

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Re: 2 questions about corners
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2009, 12:12:30 PM »
Quote
There should be some way of presetting 4-5 different corner routines, and then choosing which one you want at any given time with a "shout." 


That's thrue. Hopefully in FM11 the tactics creator will be expanded in that sphere.

Offline betterthanburley

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Re: 2 questions about corners
« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2009, 01:49:34 AM »
In this new patch it seems like players can kick it behind the penalty box, and no one ever steps out to guard it.  And since it is also too easy to score on long shots you give up (and score) a lot of silly goals.

The corner taker kicks out to maybe 15-25 yards out from the goal, defensive midfielder is there with yards of space and they shoot.  It goes in way too often, and when it doesn't go in, many times it is knocked down in the goal box and someone stuffs in the rebound.

Offline cagiva

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Re: 2 questions about corners
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2009, 12:47:00 PM »
Any chance to upload some .pkms ?

Offline betterthanburley

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Re: 2 questions about corners
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2009, 02:50:56 AM »

Offline cagiva

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Re: 2 questions about corners
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2009, 10:44:49 AM »
1) Before that goal there was simillar situation in front of your goal. In that situation one of the opposite player was left lurking around your penalty area,and the ball was distributed to him. Good for you that you was instructed one of your players to be there ( I supposed it was instructed with "back" or with "default" ? ).

2) The goal. The case is that you had 8 of your players in the opposition penalty area,one lurking outside it,and one which is left in your half. The opposition made the mistake to man-mark every player which is in their penalty area,but no one which to be close to your player,which was lurking outside their pen. area. It's normal that the corner-taker try to feed him,just because he was alone. It's logic that he will have higher chance to shoot at goal,or in summary to be dangerous,instead of just feeding the overload penalty area.

3) After the goal there was another situation when your player try such as thing. And again the opposition doesn't marked your DMC,which again was left to shoot at goal,but unfortanelly for you doesn't score again.

Offline betterthanburley

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Re: 2 questions about corners
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2009, 04:44:45 PM »
Can't disagree with anything you've said although tbh, I can't remember what my defensive settings were for specific kicks in that .pkm.  I was experimenting in that game, trying (but failing) to create as many corner kick situations as possible, and then messing with the settings to see what happens.

If a team is going to leave a man unmarked, the corner taker should naturally play the ball to him and that player should then shoot, and often that player will score.  That is realistic enough.

The problem is with the man being unmarked so often to begin with.  I realize that in real life, players sometimes get confused and miss assignments resulting in soft goals.  But it happens too often. 

I have seen it where a player will just camp out in an obviously dangerous situation BEFORE the kick is even taken, and no one will move to cover him.  It happens at least 2-3 times a game if you leave your defensive settings on default.  If you mess with your defense, you can cut it down quite a bit but it still happens. 

And their defense pretty much never covers my DMC lurking in the penalty box.  I realize he is rather far away, but he is still close enough to be dangerous given that much space.  And I am pretty sure I could actually scoot him up much closer the goal and he would still be uncovered, just haven't figured out the settings yet.

I think you are right that it has to do with overloading a zone and/or how the computer handles zonal coverage.  It also happens on penalty kicks. 

I think they changed something in the 10.2 patch to alter how the defense covers direct free kicks, which may include corners.  Whatever it was, I think there's a bug in it that allows players to be completely unmarked too often and seems ripe for an exploit.

Offline cagiva

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Re: 2 questions about corners
« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2009, 08:03:26 PM »
I think there is no problem at all.
It's normal that every team pay more attention to what is goind on in their penalty area,which in your case - you overload them with 8 players.
If you keep less players there the opposition will have "free" players to spread all around. I use simillar tactic ( with no more than 4 players in the opposite's penalty area ) so that I've never see such as thing like you see in that .pkm

I'm such as person - I pay more attention to my team's defence rather the attack.

Offline lavafire

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Re: 2 questions about corners
« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2010, 04:09:36 PM »
Sticking 2 players on the keeper ( mark keeper ) during corners is usually a good idea. This sort of discourages the keeper to come out and get the ball. After which, its basically just down to the corner taker and your few best headers in the team getting the right frequency with each other. Then again, luck plays a big part too.
Personally for me, I have my 2 DCs marking the keeper, after which i set my wingers to attack from deep, the remaining attackers to go foward. My set piece taker then delivers the corner to the 6 yard box. More often than not, it results in a goal, or at least a good attempt on goal.

Offline supermini

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Re: 2 questions about corners
« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2010, 07:53:28 PM »
I had some success with the following setup:

MCa/AMC (usually the guy with good long shots) - lurk outside area
DCs - near/far post
tall ST - challenge keeper
distribution-mixed

Nothing fancy, but I've seen reasonable success rate.  The MCa/AMC is sometimes left unmarked and is able to shoot at goal...With varied success rate.  The DCs also score a few goals on their own, but mostly against shorter teams.

Offline betterthanburley

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Re: 2 questions about corners
« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2010, 06:29:30 AM »
They seem to have somehow screwed up corner kicks even worse in this patch.  I'm seeing players left unmarked in the box (both mine and theirs) at least 2-3 times a game.