Author Topic: DLP as (D)MCr or (D)MCl  (Read 401 times)

Offline Crouchaldinho

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DLP as (D)MCr or (D)MCl
« on: March 08, 2010, 09:10:38 PM »
I am writing this post to get some opinions on footedness in the central midfield positions, particularly with a deep-lying playmaker, who I wish to deploy in my midfield.

As it stands, the tactics creator defaults to placing the more creative of the central midfield players (the central midfield 'support' player) in the left slot. I have been wondering if it is better to switch this position based on the footedness of the player and trying to theorise whether or not it might make a deep-lying playmaker more effective.

Let's take the example of a right footed player in the MCr slot. He is slightly more likely to receive the ball into his preferred foot when placed on this side, which is an immediate advantage. When passing the ball down the right flank, for example, he can open up his body and pass easily with the inside of his right foot. However, when passing to the left, which given his position may be where he is often looking to pass, any through-balls are likely to be less effective from the inside of his right foot. Coming forward to shoot at goal, he also has less chance to curl the ball from his right of centre position.

When placed in the MCl slot, the player is less likely to receive the ball into his preferred foot. He does, however, have more chance to play dangerous forward balls to the right by opening up his body and using the inside of his right foot. This is clearly an advantage over placing him in the other slot. When coming forward to shoot at goal from range, he may well have the chance now to curl a shot across the goal.

Another thought is that the AI opposition will use standard tactics creator settings, thus deploying their more creative midfielder on the left. By switching central midfield players, there is the chance that you are sending your least defensive player in the middle of the park head-to-head with their most attacking one.

The match engine does quite accurately represent footedness, especially for wide players who will act quite differently when you put them on the opposite flank to their preferred foot. Naturally, a player who is strong on both feet has an advantage here and can be placed in either position.

My observations in real life football are varied. St. Albans City, for instance, usually deploy their 'number 4' defensive-minded player on the right and their 'number 8' more creative midfielder on the left. Both of them are primarily right footed. I notice the number 8, playing MCl, tends to receive the ball and hold it, before transferring to his right and selecting the preferred pass, sometimes opening up his body to sweep the ball across to the other flank. He is the sort of player who holds on to the ball while looking for a pass anyway, so this doesn't seem to be a hindrance. Last week, when I attended the England v Egypt match, I noticed that the left-footed Barry was deployed on the left side alongside Lampard as MCr in the first-half, and Carrick as MCr in the second-half.

I realise that it is a small detail but it becomes more significant when deploying a 'deep-lying playmaker'. I want to make sure that he is as effective as possible, seeing as the team will be looking to him as the main focal point of all moves, and so I am wondering to myself how to deploy him in the centre.

Any thoughts on this appreciated. How do you tend to deploy your central midfielders? My instinct at the moment is to position players in the central midfield according to their footedness.

(As a quick P.S. to the above, it might also be worth noting that the very best deep-lying playmakers, Andrea Pirlo and Xabi Alonso, are both very strong on both feet. Meanwhile, David Beckham, who was used in the role unsuccessfully for England, has only one very strong foot, and many have hinted towards this limitation as a reason for his 'failure' in this role).
« Last Edit: March 08, 2010, 10:32:32 PM by Crouchaldinho »

Offline Crouchaldinho

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Re: DLP as (D)MCr or (D)MCl
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2010, 11:39:35 AM »
I did some testing last night, which became tedious very quickly. :rolleyes: The trouble with testing on FM is that I'd much rather be playing games properly rather than scouring the highlights and trying to make conclusions with my eyes half shut. :D

Anyway, I found it very difficult to reach a firm conclusion about this. If anything, my DLP looked most comfortable playing right of centre and appeared to be able to play more adventurous passes, whereas on the left, the passes appeared to be more possession based.

The difficulty is that the results might well be entirely skewed by something else that I observed from the opposition AI tactics. Playing with a defensive 4-4-2, the opposition would drop their support striker (the right striker) into the midfield to pick up my left midfield player. Of course, what I found was that by switching my DLP to the right, he then avoided being picked up by the support striker and was free to play under little or no pressure. Almost a bit of an exploit really because the AI doesn't react and uses the tactics creator defaults which places the support striker always on the right side. Naturally, my DLP had a storming game on the right, and played with more pressure when I tested him on the left, so I could hardly reach a decent conclusion really. :(

I ended up reading a Jonathan Wilson article last night, which suggested that England have often played with Barry right of centre, and Lampard left of centre. It's not something that I can recall, and certainly when I went to Wembley last week, Barry was left of centre and Lampard/Carrick right of centre. I'm trying to think of the benefits of having it the other way. :confused:

At the moment, my instinct is to prioritise the footedness of the DLP and play him right of centre in this case. I'd appreciate any thoughts though.

Offline cagiva

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Re: DLP as (D)MCr or (D)MCl
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2010, 02:51:13 PM »
Quote
Let's take the example of a right footed player in the MCr slot. He is slightly more likely to receive the ball into his preferred foot when placed on this side, which is an immediate advantage. When passing the ball down the right flank, for example, he can open up his body and pass easily with the inside of his right foot. However, when passing to the left, which given his position may be where he is often looking to pass, any through-balls are likely to be less effective from the inside of his right foot. Coming forward to shoot at goal, he also has less chance to curl the ball from his right of centre position.

When placed in the MCl slot, the player is less likely to receive the ball into his preferred foot. He does, however, have more chance to play dangerous forward balls to the right by opening up his body and using the inside of his right foot. This is clearly an advantage over placing him in the other slot. When coming forward to shoot at goal from range, he may well have the chance now to curl a shot across the goal.


That's solve all the case. Everything depends on the footednes. There is no much to talk about. In the paragraph up you said it all.

Offline Millie

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Re: DLP as (D)MCr or (D)MCl
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2010, 04:51:58 PM »
The venerable Jordan Cooper has always advocated two-footed players. They can cover more of the pitch and are more easily moved around.

I've never thought too much with central players about feet, but your theory makes sense, C. I think that overall it would be very useful to have two-footed players in the centre - but which side should the "strong" foot be on? I don't think I have any hypotheses at this point. :)

Look forward to hearing how you get on, even if you can only use annecdotal evidence from your career save. :thup:

Offline Crouchaldinho

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Re: DLP as (D)MCr or (D)MCl
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2010, 05:31:06 PM »
Cagiva and Millie,

Thanks for your replies.

I think part of the actual problem is that the midfield partnership seems to be a little too rigid for my liking in the ME. What I have been wanting in the game for some time now is the following player swapping options:

1) Swap position only.

2) Swap instructions only.

3) Swap position and instructions.

4) Ability to instruct a player to react to another player (e.g. an 'Alternate With' instruction, for instance meaning that players alternate forward runs - one player covering for another when he goes forward, for instance).

This would be perfect for creating more realistic central midfield partnerships.

With respect to what I am trying to achieve, it would be great to be able to get my DLP to switch positions and retain his role during the game.

I am finding that the play of my DLP is actually quite rigid, where I would actually want more movement and showing for the ball, which I guess is why I am here in the first place and looking at the footedness issue! The difficulty is that his movement doesn't seem to be dictated by the space available to the sort of degree that I would like to see, and that it is ultimately too restricted by the positioning of his midfield partner in my view.

I am actually using two DMs in a 4-2-3-1. I suspect using a central 1 in the DM strata in a 4-5-1/4-3-3 type formation, or using a Ancelotti-style diamond formation, might be better for the DLP, as he would then be central and able to move into space (not restricted, as he is now, by his midfield partner). I'm sticking with the 4-2-3-1 though as I prefer the system.


Offline cagiva

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Re: DLP as (D)MCr or (D)MCl
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2010, 06:27:22 PM »
I fully agree with your suggestions number 1,2 and 3. For the 4 - I think in the moment this is how the teams behaviour - using players tactical literacy to cover each other and to cover their zone,allowing others to join in attack ( example for this is how my two attacking wingback are acting differently  - ie when the right wingback is attacking the left wingback is sitting deeper and covering his zone ;and vice versa ).

Offline Crouchaldinho

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Re: DLP as (D)MCr or (D)MCl
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2010, 08:15:49 PM »
Interesting to note that the AI managers position their MCs by their footedness in almost every case I have seen on my current save.

Offline cagiva

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Re: DLP as (D)MCr or (D)MCl
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2010, 08:19:21 PM »
Yes,that's true. Even our assistants place our players based on the footedness,not their roles.

Offline betterthanburley

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Re: DLP as (D)MCr or (D)MCl
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2010, 02:17:44 AM »
Yes,that's true. Even our assistants place our players based on the footedness,not their roles.


And it drives me crazy.  I have to manually place or swap my players before every game because if I don't, the assistant manager will put my target striker in the fast striker spot or something like that based purely on footedness.


Offline cagiva

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Re: DLP as (D)MCr or (D)MCl
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2010, 09:40:49 AM »
But why you left your assistant to select your first eleven ?

Offline betterthanburley

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Re: DLP as (D)MCr or (D)MCl
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2010, 08:00:36 PM »
I don't.   I select my players and bench manually.  It's just that I'm lazy! :D

It would be nice if the Assistant Manager would at least select a basic side for me each game where all I'd have to do is tweak a position or two, but instead the eleven they pick are so bad it's just easier to do it all myself.

Of course there are much more important things for SI to work on than making assistant managers cleverer at selecting a squad.

Offline Crouchaldinho

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Re: DLP as (D)MCr or (D)MCl
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2010, 11:44:44 AM »
Coming back to the original question about footedness:

When placed in the MCl slot, the player is less likely to receive the ball into his preferred foot. He does, however, have more chance to play dangerous forward balls to the right  by opening up his body and using the inside of his right foot. This is clearly an advantage over placing him in the other slot. When coming forward to shoot at goal from range, he may well have the chance now to curl a shot across the goal.


This is what I am finding to be most true for my DLP (right footer).

I have watched over many games now and I feel that he is more effective in an attacking sense when in the left slot.

He can play quality passes down the left side naturally, and can open up his body and play long range passes across to the right flank.

I am also finding that he has a greater tendency to play through balls from a left of centre position.

While playing right of centre, his passes were often less dangerous and more possession-based, and he also seemed to have far less shots at goal from range.

To conclude, I would suggest that any potential DLP should at least be 'reasonable' on his weaker foot, and preferably should be strong on both.


Offline Crouchaldinho

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Re: DLP as (D)MCr or (D)MCl
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2010, 11:47:11 AM »
I forgot to add that my tactic is more effective down the left flank as well, as I play with a fullback on the 'wingback' role down that side. This may also contribute to how effective the DLP is when left of centre because he perhaps has more passing options down the left and it is more natural for him to play to that direction with his right foot.

Offline cagiva

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Re: DLP as (D)MCr or (D)MCl
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2010, 12:23:21 PM »
Yes,the players roles and duties is also having effect. I'm almost always unbalanced/asymetrical tactics and formation,just because I like the variety.

For example on the left flank I execute left fullback and pure winger,on the right - right wingback and right inside forward. The center is patrolled by pure destroyer,on the left,and pure "regista" on the right - to feed the right attacking side of my team. Up front I use one attacking midfielder,who have freedom to roam everywhere ,attacking from deep position. And his partner is pure consumer/poacher.

If I place my "regista" on left he will have less impact and my balance will be ruined.Just becouse the right side will be hard to feed.

Offline Crouchaldinho

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Re: DLP as (D)MCr or (D)MCl
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2010, 12:41:32 PM »
It sounds as though we have similar tactics Cagiva, except my preference is for the left side where I have my fullback on 'wingback' duty and usually an inside forward at AML.

Offline Fraser

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Re: DLP as (D)MCr or (D)MCl
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2010, 01:40:27 PM »
I forgot to add that my tactic is more effective down the left flank as well, as I play with a fullback on the 'wingback' role down that side. This may also contribute to how effective the DLP is when left of centre because he perhaps has more passing options down the left and it is more natural for him to play to that direction with his right foot.


Have you tried switching the roles of each flank (put your wingback and inside forward on the right side), but leaving the DLP where he is, to see what the results are?  It may be that the DLP's side is not that important - more where his options are.

Offline Crouchaldinho

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Re: DLP as (D)MCr or (D)MCl
« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2010, 02:46:17 PM »
Thanks for the reply Fraser.

I would try that but I don't currently have the personnel to do so!

My view is that Cagiva is exactly right and that the options the DLP has are very important. Nevertheless, though, it also seems to be significant that he appears more likely to shoot or play through balls to the strikers from this side. Also, some of his passes spreading play from left to right were just what I wanted to see, and I wasn't seeing it so much when he was right of centre.

Another thing I found, on a totally different note, is that using the 'swap position' function as it currently stands will result in a new playmaker being named. So, if you swap your DLP and your other defensive midfielder, for instance, the DM will become the DLP and the primary playmaker when swapping.

Offline cagiva

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Re: DLP as (D)MCr or (D)MCl
« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2010, 03:57:13 PM »
It sounds as though we have similar tactics Cagiva, except my preference is for the left side where I have my fullback on 'wingback' duty and usually an inside forward at AML.


Everything depends on current players and their skills.

Offline Crouchaldinho

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Re: DLP as (D)MCr or (D)MCl
« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2010, 04:07:27 PM »
Everything depends on current players and their skills.


Absolutely right.  :thup: