Need advice on PPMs for an AMC

[DirtyACE]

Here's a pic of the player in question:



I play him as an Advanced Playmaker in AMC position in a 4-4-2 wide diamond formation. As he is still very young I want to get him to learn some PPMs that will hopefully make him a better player in the future. He already has 'comes deep to get ball' PPM. That's the only one he has. He refuses to learn the 'tries killer balls often' move, so I want to make him learn some thing else instead. The two PPMs I have in mind are 'gets forward whenever possible' and 'moves into channels'.

My questions is which PPM would be more appropriate for him, 'gets forward whenever possible' or 'moves into channels'?

[vasilli07]

I believe it's because his creativity is only 14. If it can be increased till 15, he will want to learn that. According to my observation, 'tries killer often' requires player creativity and passing to be 15 and above.

[Millie]

Aren't "comes deep to get the ball" and "gets forward whenever possible" contradictory?

[cagiva]

Also "gets forward whenever possible" and "moves into channels" are very attacking moves. The primary role for any playmaker is to create,not to finish team's moves and goals.

And yes,as Millie said, the "comes deep to get the ball" and "gets forward whenever possible" is contradictiory.

[DirtyACE]

Aren't "comes deep to get the ball" and "gets forward whenever possible" contradictory?

Are you saying he wont use either move?

[Millie]

I'm just saying he can't really use both. If he comes deep, he's going to find it hard to get forward whenever possible. They may even be impossible to train in the same player, but I'd have to check that.

The point is, a player who looks to come deep to receive the ball is going to drop back, pick up the ball from the midfield and then look to distribute it. A player who looks to get forward whenever possible is going to look to receive the ball from a through ball or cross and then look to lay in a striker or shoot at goal himself. Those two things are completely different.

Regardless, as cagiva said, running forward through channels and getting forward whenever possible are not the traits of playmakers. Playmakers usually find themselves in the midfield, behind the attackers and look to start moves by making incisive passes.

[themadsheep2001]

it is possible to teach both "comes deep" and gets forward when possible" to the same player. maybe its me but ive found that the player (i tend to teach them to My MCd) i teach it to, often comes deeps, to recieve the ball, makes the pass then bombs on forward, sometimes playing the 1-2 with the original pass recipient, or continuing to the edge of the box, if anything its beneficial to me, but like i say maybe thats just me seeing it

[Novox]

i believe "comes deep" and "gets forward when possible" is a really good combination for Deep lying playmakers, and fabregas like players, who pick up the ball from their own zone, passes it off and runs forward to put it in himself.

But obviously this combination is for very special players, and for MC or DMC role. For shelvey, i suggest just taking a look at Lampard.

Best suggestion i can tell you is rather than having him learn a certain PPM, get someone with high Determination (19,20) to raise his determination, which i believe makes the biggest difference in dying moments.

[DirtyACE]

@ Millie: I have seen players with both 'comes deep to get ball' and 'gets forward whenever possible' PPMs and they behave like themadsheep2001 says, but it is probably more beneficial to have this PPM combo for deeper sitting players.

@Novox: I looked at Lampard. He has two PPMs which I can't find in the list. They are 'Gets into opposition area' and 'Arrives late in opponents area'. Are they called something else in the list or are they only taught through tutoring?

What about the 'runs through middle' PPM? Does Shelvey need better dribbling ability for this?

[finnan3]

He seems a good passer of the ball look for "Try Killer Balls Often". I have always found this very good in FM especially good passers. Gudjohnson, Gerrard, Kaka do very well at this.

[betterthanburley]

I think "Places shots" is really nice PPM for an AMC even if they are primarily playmakers.   They're going to have the ball within shooting distance quite frequently, and if the defense is sagging off and they have a good look, I mean why not shoot?  They'll score a few goals for themselves, and create a few more for the strikers via rebounds and keep the defense honest.   

It's not as potentially powerful as some of the other PPM's, but that's also why it's nice.  You're not asking him to stand in a certain place or shoot more often.  Just if you're going to shoot, take a placed shot.  It's a skill that pretty much every AMC can take advantage of while still leaving you the option to deploy them how you wish.

[themadsheep2001]

@betterthanburley

totally agree about "places shots", its not the most important but it does has a good impact, its normally 2nd on my list to teach to a player (after killer balls), 3rd if they are good enough to learn "runs through centre"

@Novox

as i far as i can tell, they can only be taught through tutoring (along with curls ball)

[Novox]

Unfortunately, Lampard's ppms are only tutor-able. There are a couple PPMs that can't be learned and must be tutored, along with hidden ppms.

If you want him to run into the box and get shots off, then you can teach him gets forward whenever possible, if you want him receive the ball and start attacking moves, you can tell him to slow tempo down. But even then those ppms are questionable.

Once again, at the age of 17, your most important thing to do is get someone to tutor him and raise his Determination. Then ask him to try killer balls

[DirtyACE]

Unfortunately I don't have anyone on my team who would be a worthy tutor for Shelvey. The good thing though is that he finally agreed to learn 'tries killer balls often' PPM. After that I'll see if he'll learn to place shots. By the way, for the 'runs through center' PPM, does a player need to have good dribbling or can this be done by any player who play primarily through the center of the pitch?

[Novox]

generally, you want good dribblers to run through the middle cause if can't dribble, there is little chance he'll get anywhere.

[Epiphany]

Determination is my favourite attribute in the whole game!

How do you tutor it to people? Do you have to pick a specific option when telling the player that he could learn from someone?

[Millie]

Any tutoring relationship should pass it on.

[Epiphany]

Any tutoring relationship should pass it on.

Thank you.

Is it always recommended to train PPMs for all your players? I mean I usually do it when my backroom team advise me to, but really should I be doing it more proactively? Is there a guide on this anywhere? I don't remember ever seeing one.

[betterthanburley]

It depends.  Your player will sometimes refuse to learn the PPM, or worse spend months practicing (practising?) it only to fail. 

It costs them 10% of their training, so learning a bunch of PPM's can impact their rate of development.  Also, if a player is learning a PPM then it appears as though they cannot be tutored during that period.

If I have a player that is developing rapidly and I feel like they are at or near maximum potential, and a PPM would help them then I will train it.   For younger players, I feel like tutoring and the development of mental attributes and general skills take priority. 

However, you can still try to train PPM's via tutors and it doesn't cost you 10% of training and there are some PPM's that can only be passed on this way .  So if I have a player with a particularly helpful PPM then I will pick that player to tutor and hopefully he will pass that PPM on.

As far as which skills to learn, I tend to focus on ones that cover up a players flaws (and I also tend to focus on the players with flaws; awesome players I tend to leave alone).  For example a player without good dribbling might learn "dribbles rarely" or a player who is not a good passer might get "plays simple passes."  I also tend to give them to players who are a bit weak and really need the edge.

If I have a player who is already strong on creativity and technical skills and passing, I figure he'll have the ability and tendency to say, "play killer balls" on his own.  I don't want him to overly focus on playing killer balls.  Or at least I feel like he's already decent at this and would rather have them work on something else.

[Epiphany]

Thanks for the advice betterthanburley!

Love your name by the way, but it's not very unique, surely everyone is better than Burley?

[DirtyACE]

I've been trying to get Shelvey to play the AMC position (Attacking Playmaker with support duty) but so far not that successful. Is it possible that his lack of pace and dribbling ability hinder him playing there?

Just to experiment a bit I moved him down to his natural MC position and switched his role to Central Midfielder with Attack duty. I did this because this way he's not asked to dribble much, only mixed, but is told to go forward often and make through passes often, which suits his attributes. This role also has a lower creative freedom setting which suits him due to his average creativity and somewhat low flair.

Anyway, he suddenly played one of his best games for me, assisting twice and scoring once, being ever present in the center of the pitch. Is this the type of role Lampard plays in real life? I ask because Shelvey performed in that match very similar to how Lampard would play and move on the pitch.

[DirtyACE]

Instead of starting another thread, I thought I'd just continue with this one. Here's my current problem:

I brought in Artem Kravets during the previous summer, however, I'm not sure if I'm playing him correctly. Would he be a good deep lying forward or target man for Championship level? I have been playing him as a deep lying forward, but he is having a problem settling and adjusting to the lifestyle in England so he has been playing rather poorly.

Here's a pic of him:

[Vertigo]

It costs them 10% of their training, so learning a bunch of PPM's can impact their rate of development. 

I think it's even 20 % with PPM's and 10 % with positional training if I am correct.
Therefor I rarely teach PPM's unless they will really benefit their play.

[Vertigo]

so he has been playing rather poorly.

5 goals in 5 matches ? Seems to be doing pretty damn well

Keep him as a deep lying forward imo

[DirtyACE]

so he has been playing rather poorly.

5 goals in 5 matches ? Seems to be doing pretty damn well

Keep him as a deep lying forward imo

What? I didn't say he scored 5 goals in 5 matches. Do you have him on your team as well?

Regarding the deep lying forward role. Since Kravets is a right footed player, would it be better to play him on the left side in a two-striker partnership? His partner is a poacher, so would Kravets be able to make better through passes if he is played on the left?