Stupid Questions

[Keith]

Part Deux.

As the old Stupid Questions thread had reached over 50 pages, I've locked it and will start collating all the questions into a monster FAQ.  Please use this thread for any further stupid questions about LLM.

As mentioned in the old thread, many answers to commonly asked questions can also be found in the Rules & Guidelines and the  LLM Guidelines, LLaMaspeak & History threads.

If you haven't looked in those threads first, please do.

[Kanno]

Yank here, in case anyone feared the rechristening might not live up to its name.

          

Has anyone considered limiting their use of the backroom advice for staff hires?  I see no mention of it anywhere.  I hired one of the first batch, a dropout of the most prestigious physical therapy slash caravan maintenance course in all of Sussex.

In a challenge sense, right on;  I suspect by January we'll have changed our logo to a red cross in his honor.  But in the purist sense, something here bugs me.  Now as we all know, there isn't an assman alive who isn't blessed with powers of telepathy, so knowing the prospective staff members' motivation level, reactions to stress, and tactical philosophies makes perfect sense.

But when is he finding time to proctor those medical exams?

I get the sense I'm erring here but am not sure on which side.  Lacking the option to obfuscate their skills, it seems staff hires are going to be a weak point in the llamastic narrative no matter how they are discovered.

Thought I'd call for some perspective;  if a bit of handwringing on day 3 can prevent sudden disillusionment in season 10?  Worth it every time.

[JP]

I tend to use staff recommendations alongside the job centre. Neither is perfect imo and have an written rule that I enforce on myself that I don't hire staff who have a reputation that is more than one step higher than the club.

[Deus]

TBF you normally have enough trouble getting staff of the same rep to come never mind two up.

[cunning linguist]

Why limit yourself? All FM is trying to do is replicate connections that exist between people.

Now, whether you trust your staff enough to take on their mate is another matter. Unfortunately you can't scout the staff in the way you can player suggestions.

[Kanno]

Agreed.  Thanks all, that was the only thing I couldn't specifically find mentioned in the guidelines... common sense told me I was on about nothing, but the words "Job centre should be used to find staff" wouldn't stop running through my head.

 

[spirefox]

Don't know whether this has been asked before but the other thread is mahoosive and I cant be arsed to trawl it and don't really know how I'd put this into the search function...

What is the extent of the 'research' that can be undertaken when deciding whether to apply for another job/accept an approach from another club?

[JP]

My take is this:

Before applying for a job I look where the team are in the league, a quick browse of their landmarks (found in the club history) to see if anything major has happened recently (takeovers etc) and pretty much nothing else.

Before accepting a job, whether applied for or approached, I'll have a quick browse of the playing and backroom staff.  Not looking at attributes, purely based on positions filled/needed.  I'll also check out the facilities of the club and the financial position in respect of the other clubs in their division/nation.  Perhaps a more in depth trawl of the landmarks and club history is worthwhile too, to get a feel for the club - are they a fallen giant that I'm going to be expected to revitalise almost immediately, or a small club on the up?

I imagine these are the kinds of things that would be addressed in job interviews for managerial posts irl and they're certainly issues that I'd consider to be due diligence if I was looking to take a role at a club.  One of my university law tutors instructed us to investigate any company that we were offered a position with, without exception.  It's something I've tended to abide by.

[Daedalus]

I think that's largely a personal thing. If the club have already made contact, then I just think about what they might've told me. A very quick run-down on the players and finances isn't beyond the realms of plausibility, but I don't think they'd be discussing individual player wages, how successful your scout, how much finances will be transferable etc.

With that said, I don't remember the last time I did actually look at the players. That's for the first training session, isn't it? If you want a real feel for them before you say yes, why not watch a game?

I definitely always look at their recent history though. I want to know if they're under-performing and I'm expected to turn it around, if their manager's been snapped up due to a spot of success and I should be continuing that... that kind of thing.

[TomTwice]

Don't know whether this has been asked before but the other thread is mahoosive and I cant be arsed to trawl it and don't really know how I'd put this into the search function...

What is the extent of the 'research' that can be undertaken when deciding whether to apply for another job/accept an approach from another club?

What's their crest look like?
What's their kit look like?

That's about it

[bazhsw]

To be honest Tom, that would be completely unrealistic.

It's a good question spirefox.  I have a slightly different take on it than from JP.  If you havn't been approached then I think you can only research stuff that is in the public domain - like the size of the ground, recent history (and 'landmarks') and the squad but only in terms of how many players there are and what positions they play in.  Finances are a funny one - would you contact Companies House and request last year's accounts for a team you may apply for a job for?  Would you do that for your real life job?  Basically, pick any club and google them now and work out how many facts or assumptions you can get and how much 'FM detail' you can't get.

On the other hand, if you have been approached by a club then the goalposts most definitely have moved.  First of all, the club definitely want you so there is a good chance they'd answer more requests for information.  For instance I think it would be reasonable to find out how much debt the club was in and what the bottom line is.  I still think the squad should only be assessed in terms of how many and what position - relative talent, morale or contract details probably wouldn't be released (what if you stayed at your club and poached them?).  Of course, if you've scouted any of them then they are fair game.  Daedalus' suggestion is much more realistic than looking at the stats.

[TomTwice]

To be honest Tom, that would be completely unrealistic.

It's how I'd do it in real life. In an old save, I was given the choice of GAIS (fetching green/black stripes, nice crest) and I think PNE and some League 1 clubs, so i picked the one that looked better

[bazhsw]

I know it's only a game and all that but everyone on here says they play as realistically as the game allows.  Did you really choose your current job in real life because you like the colour of the work's uniform?   If you asked the manager's of every playable team in FM 'why did you apply for the job' I'd be surprised if any of them genuinely did so because they liked the colour of the kit.

Spirefox asked an interesting question and your response was an unrealistic answer in a thread where 'realism' opinions are pretty important.  I don't have a problem with anyone playing as a team because they liked the kit - it is a computer game after all but our responses, particularly in this thread should come from a llama perspective.

[WilliamMcBeard]

The fact that you have to sit and look at the screen for hours and hours means that the club colours can have a major effect on your psyche. For me, I couldn't manage in yellow and red now after Igea, and I have never ever had success with a team in Blue shite. I wouldn't make the decision solely on kit, but sometimes looking at another red and white screen for the next 3 months is too much.

[JP]

I have to be honest, the kit or logo can be a deal breaker for me.  But the other factors hold more sway, it would only break the deal if I was undecided based on the other factors.

[Deus]

The fact that you have to sit and look at the screen for hours and hours means that the club colours can have a major effect on your psyche. For me, I couldn't manage in yellow and red now after Igea, and I have never ever had success with a team in Blue shite. I wouldn't make the decision solely on kit, but sometimes looking at another red and white screen for the next 3 months is too much.

While it most definitely shouldn't be the entirety of your decision the kit/commentary colours are actually a pretty important thing to look atm in FM. Not in terms of do you like the colour/shirt but more in terms of Is there enough contrast between the primary and secondary colours?

[TomTwice]

I know it's only a game and all that but everyone on here says they play as realistically as the game allows.  Did you really choose your current job in real life because you like the colour of the work's uniform?   If you asked the manager's of every playable team in FM 'why did you apply for the job' I'd be surprised if any of them genuinely did so because they liked the colour of the kit.

Yet I would. Shock horror, someone who isn't as obsessed with getting the most money. Given the chance to actually manage a RL team, that would come into it a some stage. It's just how I am.

IRL, I'm an engineer, we don't have uniforms.

Spirefox asked an interesting question and your response was an unrealistic answer in a thread where 'realism' opinions are pretty important.  I don't have a problem with anyone playing as a team because they liked the kit - it is a computer game after all but our responses, particularly in this thread should come from a llama perspective.

Define 'realism'. How 'we', if given the chance or same decision in 'real life' would choose? Sorry I don't hold to your ideals of how I should act.

I have to be honest, the kit or logo can be a deal breaker for me.  But the other factors hold more sway, it would only break the deal if I was undecided based on the other factors.

For me, the other factors don't matter. Apart from maybe if I wated to manage in that league in the first place. I once had an agonising decision between whether I liked the look of Hednesford or Bedford better (Bedford BTW)


It's like ditching a club when another comes with more money on offer. Stuff that, I'd rather finish what I started at the club I'm at now.

[cunning linguist]

Given the last page shouldn't this be renamed the stupid answers thread?

Seriously, a manager should move clubs based on the answer to the following question:

"Does this new team give me a greater opportunity of being successful than where I am now?"

After that you have to factor in some other things like:

Am I happy where I am now?
Are they going to pay me more?
Do I have unfinished business here?
Could I live up to the new clubs expectations or will I be sacked in 6 months time?

Then you might move onto game related (rather than reality related) things such as:

Do they have an sugar daddy or massive revenues which tend to ruin the game experience?
Can I read the commentary given the kit colours?

But questions like "Do I prefer salmon pink shirts or tangerine?" :shakeshead:

[keefa]

I'm with baz and cunning linguist here. 

[kin_lin]

Come on guys, lay off TT.

Haven't you ever picked a team due to the colours/jersey/badge?

I know I have . . . when I was 8 years old 

[HUNT3R]

I look at a few things whem I get offered a post (which is very rarely).

How much more money will I get? IRL this matters to me. If it's a big jump in salary, I'll give it serious thought. Otherwise it'll depend on how happy I am at my current club. I'm very loyal, so it will take a good offer to get me to move. Sometimes I have a few very good youngsters coming through and I don't want to leave because of them. I'll also be more hesitant to move if I'm in the running for promotion or a cup win.

Is the prospective club under performing compared to recent years? If they are, I'd consider myself able to get the club back on track. If they're in a downward spiral and have been for a few seasons, then I'd think again. Is it worth a salary increase to go to this club if it means I'll get fired 6 months down the line?

Transfer funds available and wage budgets also play a role. If it's an under-performing club, I'd want some money available to make changes.

If I'm all satisfied with that, I'll look at the kit colours.

[bazhsw]

I know it's only a game and all that but everyone on here says they play as realistically as the game allows.  Did you really choose your current job in real life because you like the colour of the work's uniform?   If you asked the manager's of every playable team in FM 'why did you apply for the job' I'd be surprised if any of them genuinely did so because they liked the colour of the kit.

Yet I would. Shock horror, someone who isn't as obsessed with getting the most money. Given the chance to actually manage a RL team, that would come into it a some stage. It's just how I am.

IRL, I'm an engineer, we don't have uniforms.

Spirefox asked an interesting question and your response was an unrealistic answer in a thread where 'realism' opinions are pretty important.  I don't have a problem with anyone playing as a team because they liked the kit - it is a computer game after all but our responses, particularly in this thread should come from a llama perspective.

Define 'realism'. How 'we', if given the chance or same decision in 'real life' would choose? Sorry I don't hold to your ideals of how I should act.

I have to be honest, the kit or logo can be a deal breaker for me.  But the other factors hold more sway, it would only break the deal if I was undecided based on the other factors.

For me, the other factors don't matter. Apart from maybe if I wated to manage in that league in the first place. I once had an agonising decision between whether I liked the look of Hednesford or Bedford better (Bedford BTW)


It's like ditching a club when another comes with more money on offer. Stuff that, I'd rather finish what I started at the club I'm at now.

I don't want to get into a circular argument here but this board is clearly aimed at playing 'as realistically as the game allows' so in those terms it would be acceptable to not accept a job based on the kit colour if that kit impinged on your enjoyment of the game (i.e white commentary on a sky blue background).  However, I can't let your original comment go;

"What's their crest look like?
What's their kit look like?

That's about it"

I don't accept that anyone who plays this game realistically only considers that.  I accept that in real life you (like me) is not obsessed with money (or 'in game' money) but did you apply for your engineer job based on the colour of the pen you had in your hand when you filled in the application form?  I don't have to define realism - let your conscience be your guide and all that.  You can get a good idea about what is realistic by reading the back page of any sports paper.  I didn't hear ex Fulham manager once mention the iconic red kit as a reason he took the Liverpool job.  Likewise, unless you live on independant means I don't believe you didn't at least consider the salary when you applied for your real job.

You don't have to subscibe to 'my' or anyone's ideals on how to act but your response is a cop-out to deflect attention.  I'm not telling you what to do but if you genuinely do make significant decisions about your career and livelihood based on something as arbitrary as colour then more power to you but I suspect your real life boss would seriously question your judgement.

"It's like ditching a club when another comes with more money on offer. Stuff that, I'd rather finish what I started at the club I'm at now."

I've tried to role play my save and move clubs when an offer at a bigger club or a better career opportunity comes along.  I dare say most successful managers did things the same way.  Staying at a small club (unless they mean the world to you) is rare, what is even rarer is taking that club to European glory.  When has it ever happened?  In contrast what do you consider 'finishing what you've started' - in every save you've ever posted you've a) join small club b) win everything in sight c) do it for ten more seasons.  Personally I think the manager of a small university team who share their ground with the local police team getting crowds of 1,000 after rising through the divisions and getting into Europe would get tons of attention.  Would he really 'finish what he started' and win the league for another five years or would he be itching to try and do something in a more prestigious league?  You can play your game how you want Tom but I suspect most people would consider one scenario more in keeping with the 'llama' ethos than the other.  I recall your 'agonising' choice to go to Bedford, didn't you drop from the Premier League to go there?

[spirefox]

I didn't expect my question to start such a debate as this and I only really wanted to find out what was permitted. Basically I didn't want to look through the squad/finances/reputation/history of a club in too much depth to be considered unrealistic and therefore against the rules.

Of course anyone can choose whether or not to accept a move to a new club based on anything they desire, as long as these reasons lay within the boundaries of the LLM rules.

Maybe this would be a good topic to add to the rules and guidelines section of the forum so that newcomers know what is permissible?

[Psycorp603]

I look at kit and crest first.

Is it red?
Are they Red Shite or Red Grievers?

Answer "Yes" to either, no dice. And that's realism. If someone offered me a wedge to manage Scum or Pool, I'd say no. I couldn't give that job my full commitment and wouldn't feel comfortable taking the cash.

[Keith]

I didn't expect my question to start such a debate as this

Nothing wrong with a good debate.