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problems about barca-style 433 tactic.

#1 User is offline   peterso 

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 05:18 PM

i played At.Madrid with 4231, with 2 dmf, 2wingers, 1amc tranquxxx, 1 advanced forward, it is doing absolutely good. Because of the presence of Forlan, I placed aguero as a left winger, and he can scores more than being a striker or amc...so i started to build up a squad in the EPL with similar thought, to place strikers on wingers role, and play like barca formation 433....it can attack, but efficiency is low, while always rewarded with a long shot or corner from the opponent -.-

I want to raise some questions regarding the trials i've been taken when my team is facing a relatively weaker squad.

Team playing: Charlton in EPL
past result: rank 6 to 7 in previous 2 years in EPL
Year: 2012-2013
FORMATION
                                                  Vaughan(advanced forward att)
random english forward/fleck(inside forward att)                            random english forward(inside forward att)
                          random guy(deep-lying playmaker supp)        gourcuff(advanced playmaker att)
                                                  annan ( anchor man def)
van dem(full backsupp)        fazio(CB defend def)        curtis davies(CB defend def)          krysov(full back supp)

setting:
Fluid
Attacking
Shorter
more expressive
press more
more aggressive
zonal marking
default
more roaming
focus passing: down both flanks
playmaker and target man: not set
target man supply: run onto ball
TARGET:
To play barca like 433, with 2 inside forwards scoring like hell with the striker. And to get the 2 midfield playmakers to send out tones of assists through great passes and possession, while providing some hollywood long shot finishing.
RESULTS:
can get some attack, but no successful to put into the net. lack of clear cut chances always. Gourcuff as an advanced playmaker or deep-lying one, can deliver non key passes in lots of match trials i tried.

QUESTIONS:
1. how to get most of the ball to be delivered by the two playmakers? fabregas in arsenal once have up to 100 passes with 80% up success rate, and 5 key passes when he is facing my team at my home. how to create such? perhaps there can only be one playmaker in my team? my playmakers can only get 50 passes in one match...and no key passes or just 1-2. even weak teams can have midfield players passing 60 passes when facing me, is it due to defending problem or what? i have already play an anchor man there, but the opponent can still get such high passing rate!

2. in such formation, shall i tick the focus passing box to 'down both flanks' or 'middlle' or 'mixed'? and shall i tick those playmaker or target man boxes? (i am always confused by these boxes, after tones of trials, i found that untick the playmaker box is better than ticking it, but i am not sure for that) and should it be 'run onto the ball' or 'to feet'? (run onto ball seems to be getting through ball chances from the midfield which is what is want, but again, i always found that ticking 'to feet' is far more successful if use that box option.

3. how to increase the defending ability of the attacking guys? after every match when i check the data, i found that the opponents attackers can always get far more inteceptions than my attacking players, which means they may stop my buildup process and create themselves chances upfield. For my attacking guys, they always have 0 interceptions -.-.....(should i decrease there pressing option to their own areas instead? that seems more efficient)

4. the hold up ball option of anchor man is default, shall i untick it so as to release him to do damage to the opponents, rather than holding up the ball? again, it is the hold up ball issue, how many players on the field should get the hold up ball option? i think hold up ball option should be given to move-build up playmakers, but why do advanced playmaker dont have that box ticked by default? i don't understand.

5. how to get the 3 attacking roles getting on scoresheet more -.-? (i am already using best players and facing weakest team in EPL as a trial version..) they just cant score.... is there a problem if i set vaughan as advanced forward? and i set the inside forwards as just having run with ball and run from deep always, others rarely, wide play move into channels, can this work if i really want to to act like messi or henry type inside forward in barca? (i know they dun have cut inside preference by default, so is this a main factor?)

6. I've tried the philosophy, and i wonder which is best to suit this formation.....(i always play with very fluid and attacking in other formation to get everyone moving and scoring, but i can't really do so in this 433 formation whichever philosophy i use)

7. others....(forgot, haha, ask later if i have chance...)

I can get good result with 442 (424 version) and sometimes 4231, but can never play 433 well in FM 09 and 10....i really want to get passed this, can any good brother help me? thanks a lot !
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#2 User is offline   lavafire 

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 05:52 PM

1) If you wish to cut down on their passes, try using a defensive midfielder instead of an anchorman. Anchorman just sits in front of your defenses and acts as a screen only. I am currently using both deep lying/support and advanced playmaker/attack with good success. These 2 can co-exist as their roles are quite different. Perharps its the player's attributes being not good enough or not enough gelling time and understanding. My Arsenal squad's understanding is " The players are willing to die for each other."  :)

2) It is best to set the passing to mixed to ensure your attacking pattern is not limited. Ticking the box simply allows you to choose who will be the main chief playmaker in your team,as it will otherwise by set to a default person by the AI. Ticking the targetman box indicates that you wish to use a targetman. IMO, unless you have a imba tall basketball player wannabe as your striker, using targetman is not really effective.

3) Why would you need your offensive players to defend? If your attacking players can intercept balls from the defenders, it means its a defensive error. The balls are often won in your own half  or around the centre of the pitch. If you really have to, try combining individual instructions along with your attackers man marking.

4) Holding up ball is a form of stopping plays.As you wish to build your team as a possession based offensive side rather than a counter attacking side, having 1 or 2 players hold up the ball shouldnt be a problem. Advanced playmakers are expected to dribble and try to crack open the defence with their superior range of pinpoint passes and keep the ball moving. It would be weird if they hold up the ball though. I cant really think of any playmakers who constantly holds up the ball...  :)

5) Perharpps you could try changing Vaughan to poacher , deep lying support or complete support.  I dont think having a cus inside PPM is necessary. Nasri and Walcott scores reguarly while cutting inside ~  :)

6) I think fluid philosophy is good. Perharps its the squad understanding. All squads takes time to gel and adapt to a new formation  or tactic. Give it a month or 2. U'll be surprised at the gradual change in scoring rate.
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#3 User is offline   Xulu 

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 08:35 PM

Barca is not an easy team to emulate. You will need a lot of solid players in certain spots to emulate them. The FM-B interpretation of Barca is below.

http://forums.fm-bri...p?topic=10300.0

1: The number of passes is not everything. If you are connecting with quality and spreading the ball around then it does not matter what individuals have for stats. Also the Defensive Midfielder role is the cross between Deep-Lying Playmaker and Anchorman. If you would like to be able to have a deeper playmaker and a screener (which you need in this tactic), use that role.

2: If you use a target man, it needs to be the FCc. You probably do not need a primary playmaker. You will need to ensure your side can attack down both the center and the flanks for best results, otherwise you will probably lack width and that will stifle you.

3: The two side forwards only need to pin the opposing fullbacks. If you can get them to do that, that would be all you need from them.

4: Only two players should hold up ball here against normal sides, and that is only if you want them to. Those are the DMC/MC Ball-Winner and the Center Forward (so long as it is a player who drops back, an Advanced Forward should not HUB).

6: Fluid or Balanced is best.
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